money, power, slavery and death ??

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[dadman]

Does the Bible advocate money, power, slavery and death ??

( according to SteveC ) "the Gospels where used to justify slavery in the US and on and on . . . Where that cross has gone, so has slavery and death . . . Is it about people's souls, or about power and money that drives all religions?."

Oh Really ?? .. so then tell me Steve .. what verse/s in the Bible do you think they used to 'justify' their enslavement of people ??
 .. I'm curious.

SteveC = "I don't know what verses, but Paul states that slaves should accept their lot in life and obey their masters. It's what all Christian slave masters fall back on to justify their actions.

I'm sorry Steve .. I find your reasoning to be rather weak .. what an individual does or doesn't do in the name of God and Christianity can run the spectrum .. again .. I'll ask you to list the bible verse/s that ADVOCATE the issues you are ACCUSING Christianity of ..

Slavery .. money .. power .. death

[SteveC]

Does the Bible advocate money, power, slavery and death ??

( according to SteveC ) "the Gospels where used to justify slavery in the US and on and on . . . Where that cross has gone, so has slavery and death . . . Is it about people's souls, or about power and money that drives all religions?."

Oh Really ?? .. so then tell me Steve .. what verse/s in the Bible do you think they used to 'justify' their enslavement of people ??
 .. I'm curious.

SteveC = "I don't know what verses, but Paul states that slaves should accept their lot in life and obey their masters. It's what all Christian slave masters fall back on to justify their actions.

I'm sorry Steve .. I find your reasoning to be rather weak .. what an individual does or doesn't do in the name of God and Christianity can run the spectrum .. again .. I'll ask you to list the bible verse/s that ADVOCATE the issues you are ACCUSING Christianity of ..

Slavery .. money .. power .. death

No, we've discussed this so many times, I'll simply use the shorthand version and assume everybody knows what verses I'm referring to. Don't pretend that you don't know. You want them to appear, you go dig through your Gospels and quote them here, and we'll discuss them for the millionth time. Paul was obviously cozying up to the Romans, or fearful of their response, so he was willing to overlook an evil - it's all about how many combinations of money, power, and glory you want to attribute to Christianity. The slavery and death were the historic results of Christianity, and as much as you might prefer to separate the results from Christianity, it is the ugly truth.

[dadman]

SteveC = "I'll simply use the shorthand version and assume everybody knows what verses I'm referring to.
You want them to appear,
you go dig through your Gospels and quote them here"

No really SteveC ..
( since you're the expert on this issue )
I'd like to see em'

where does the Bible advocate one man owning another ?

You make the accusation .. you make the case

[SteveC]

Quote from Religious Tolerance website:

While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a Christian -- presumably Pheliemon. He sent the slave back to his owner. This action is forbidden in Deuteronomy 23:15-16:

"Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee."

"He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Ephesians 6:5-9:  Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.

[dadman]

SteveC = "While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a (brand new) Christian -- presumably Pheliemon. He sent the slave back to his owner."

But what you fail to realize Steve .. is that Paul lifted the status of Philemon's servant to that of Philemon's brother .. In Christ they are now one .. Christianity does not attempt to change your circumstance .. Christianity ( Jesus ) changes the hearts of men.

There is nothing here ADVOCATING slavery .. quite the opposite

good try though =:0]

Therefore, although in Christ I ( Paul ) could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, yet I appeal to you on the basis of love.
I then, as Paul--an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus

I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains. Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me. I am sending him--who is my very heart--back to you. I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favour you do will be spontaneous and not forced. Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good-- no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord. So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back--not to mention that you owe me your very self. I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask. And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers. Epaphras, my fellow-prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow-workers. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Incase you would like to learn more .. link

[SteveC]

SteveC = "While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a (brand new) Christian -- presumably Pheliemon. He sent the slave back to his owner."

But what you fail to realize Steve .. is that Paul lifted the status of Philemon's servant to that of Philemon's brother .. In Christ they are now one .. Christianity does not attempt to change your circumstance .. Christianity ( Jesus ) changes the hearts of men.

There is nothing here ADVOCATING slavery .. quite the opposite

good try though =:0]

Therefore, although in Christ I ( Paul ) could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, yet I appeal to you on the basis of love.
I then, as Paul--an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus

I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains. Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me. I am sending him--who is my very heart--back to you. I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favour you do will be spontaneous and not forced. Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good-- no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord. So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back--not to mention that you owe me your very self. I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask. And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers. Epaphras, my fellow-prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you greetings. And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow-workers. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Justify it any way you want, it's the results that I measure.

[dadman]

SteveC = "Justify it any way you want, it's the results that I measure."

all I'm doing Steve is setting the record straight ( after your distortion ) what do you think were the results between Philemon and Onesimus' relationship after the delivery of Paul's letter

again Steve .. where does the Bible advocate one man owning another ? .. You make the accusation .. you make the case

PS: What about the Atheists ?

[SteveC]

SteveC = "Justify it any way you want, it's the results that I measure."

all I'm doing Steve is setting the record straight ( after your distortion ) what do you think were the results between Philemon and Onesimus' relationship after the delivery of Paul's letter

again Steve .. where does the Bible advocate one man owning another ? .. You make the accusation .. you make the case

PS: What about the Atheists ?

You set nothing straight.

Ephesians 6:5-9:  Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.

And Atheists have committed many crimes against humanity. I don't deny it.

[dadman]

SteveC = "And Atheists have committed many
 crimes against humanity." .. I don't deny it.

Thank you very much ..
maybe you should comlpain about them for a while

all I am saying to you is that ..
any man who wants to own another man ..
didn't get it from the Bible .. quite the opposite

any man who is hungary for money ( flithy lucar ) ..
didn't justify it from the Bible .. quite the opposite

any man who is hungary for power ..
didn't find that agenda in the bible .. quite the opposite

any man who kills another ( except self-defence ) ..
didn't find that idea in the bible .. quite the opposite

[SteveC]

SteveC = "And Atheists have committed many
 crimes against humanity." .. I don't deny it.

Thank you very much ..
maybe you should comlpain about them for a while

all I am saying to you is that ..
any man who wants to own another man ..
didn't get it from the Bible .. quite the opposite

any man who is hungary for money ( flithy lucar ) ..
didn't justify it from the Bible .. quite the opposite

any man who is hungary for power ..
didn't find that agenda in the bible .. quite the opposite

any man who kills another ( except self-defence ) ..
didn't find that idea in the bible .. quite the opposite

If you say so, but judging by Christianity's failure to deliver anything but typical human results - slavery, money, power, death, you clearly don't have a leg to stand on.

[dadman]

If you say so, but judging by Christianity's failure to deliver anything but typical human results - slavery, money, power, death, you clearly don't have a leg to stand on.

Obviously a man who is not called .. later =:0]

[SteveC]

If you say so, but judging by Christianity's failure to deliver anything but typical human results - slavery, money, power, death, you clearly don't have a leg to stand on.

Obviously a man who is not called .. later =:0]

Spooks and voodoo don't scare me. Some of us have evolved beyond cavemen.

[dadman]

SteveC = "Spooks and voodoo don't scare me.
Some of us ( Atheists ) have evolved beyond cavemen."

Oh Really ?? .. please explain .. I'm curious

[Tubal Cain]

Christians defend(ed) the slavery of blacks based on the curse of Ham (Canaan), in Genesis 9. Scripture says nothing of Canaan's skin color, however, legends say that he was black, and therefore because of Noah's curse, Canaan's descendents were destined to be servants.

[kwd111]

Christians defend(ed) the slavery of blacks based on the curse of Ham (Canaan), in Genesis 9. Scripture says nothing of Canaan's skin color, however, legends say that he was black, and therefore because of Noah's curse, Canaan's descendents were destined to be servants.

Christians defended liberty based on "all men are created equal" - in scripture...

But what scripture promotes slavery?

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