So that's why I don't believe!

Advanced search

[Terms Of Conduct]

Terms Of Conduct

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[CCC460]

Steve,

I'm not denying that electro-chemical processes can heighten different senses. Of course, they can. Simple observation confirms this.
The question is, why? What has enabled this to be the way it is. What creates life from mere chemistry and physical laws? Science hasn't yet seen life created from nothing. It can observe that a sperm and egg create a human person, but science is unable to explain how personhood comes to be. That's what i'm getting at.
I think we're discussing two different, but related, things.

[SteveC]

Steve,

I'm not denying that electro-chemical processes can heighten different senses. Of course, they can. Simple observation confirms this.
The question is, why? What has enabled this to be the way it is. What creates life from mere chemistry and physical laws? Science hasn't yet seen life created from nothing. It can observe that a sperm and egg create a human person, but science is unable to explain how personhood comes to be. That's what i'm getting at.
I think we're discussing two different, but related, things.

Are you arguing that the research from the article I posted is invalid because a scientific explanation in an unrelated area of science is incomplete or totally lacking? What does the fact that scientist have yet to create life have to do with research dealing the neural-origins of our spirituality?

[CCC460]

Are you arguing that the research from the article I posted is invalid because a scientific explanation in an unrelated area of science is incomplete or totally lacking?

No. I am simply saying that the research isn't going to dis-prove the existence of objective spiritual reality.

What does the fact that scientist have yet to create life have to do with research dealing the neural-origins of our spirituality?

I am stating that the neural-origins are just that, neural origins. These cannot invalidate or confirm the presence of supernatural origins. I have been trying to assert that it is perfectly acceptable to accept the findings here while realizing that these neural responses are the channel by which we can communicate with spiritual reality, they are not what has invented the myth of spirituality. This study can neither confirm nor deny this.
When one tries to extrapolate this to assert that spirituality is nothing more than something made up in the brain, I think they go too far because they cannot confirm this conclusion scientifically.

[SteveC]

Are you arguing that the research from the article I posted is invalid because a scientific explanation in an unrelated area of science is incomplete or totally lacking?

No. I am simply saying that the research isn't going to dis-prove the existence of objective spiritual reality.

What does the fact that scientist have yet to create life have to do with research dealing the neural-origins of our spirituality?

I am stating that the neural-origins are just that, neural origins. These cannot invalidate or confirm the presence of supernatural origins. I have been trying to assert that it is perfectly acceptable to accept the findings here while realizing that these neural responses are the channel by which we can communicate with spiritual reality, they are not what has invented the myth of spirituality. This study can neither confirm nor deny this.
When one tries to extrapolate this to assert that spirituality is nothing more than something made up in the brain, I think they go too far because they cannot confirm this conclusion scientifically.

Explain to me why I don't have the same conductivity or channeling ability to perceive god as believers do?

[CCC460]

How am I supposed to know? Have you been part of this study?
The study focused on one personality trait called ST.

While this is one study, I think that everyone is all excited to think that they can find some kind of a needle in a haystack.
This single study says it believes it has found a caussative link in "a" specific personality type. It goes a long way from stating that religion and spirituality is a concept 'made up" in the brain.

It simply states that damage in the brain seems to have a certain effect on this aprticular personality trait.

It doesn't say what you're inferring that it says,

[SteveC]

How am I supposed to know? Have you been part of this study?
The study focused on one personality trait called ST.

While this is one study, I think that everyone is all excited to think that they can find some kind of a needle in a haystack.
This single study says it believes it has found a caussative link in "a" specific personality type. It goes a long way from stating that religion and spirituality is a concept 'made up" in the brain.

It simply states that damage in the brain seems to have a certain effect on this aprticular personality trait.

It doesn't say what you're inferring that it says,

fine

[OmarKhayyam]

"You're no better than what you denigrate in others."

Then I guess we have more in common than we thought.

BTW, just curious why in your understanding is that all those "supernatural" events surrounding the resurrection were not reported by ANYBODY secular Jew or Roman EXCEPT those in whose interest it was to do so. And that decades later. Dead folk walking around must have been surprising to SOMEBODY. Yet not a single reference to these "supernatural" events anywhere but in the self-serving writings of the adherents to it.

Passing strange.

[OmarKhayyam]

As for your Fatima apparition this raises a question.

According to the Wiki article: "The children reported that the Lady had promised them that she would on 13 October reveal her identity to them and provide a miracle "so that all may believe."

According to these reports, the event lasted approximately ten minutes. The three children also reported seeing a panorama of visions, including those of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of Saint Joseph blessing the people."


We are repeatedly told that this god is no longer visible to us because it wants humanity to believe in it and its teachings "by faith alone." That to make its existence unquestionable would eliminate the free choice to believe or not and so defeat the entire purpose of this life.

Yet here we are told that the purpose of this event was "so that all may believe." Seems . . . contradictory. But I guess to the faithful it is all very simple and logical.

They say it is anyway.

[Acumen]

The difference is that my assertions correspond to the world we see.

That's what everyone claims, even those in mental health hospitals.  So you are in distinguished company, Omar.

[OmarKhayyam]

The difference is that my assertions correspond to the world we see.

That's what everyone claims, even those in mental health hospitals.  So you are in distinguished company, Omar.

So your position is that no such thing as verifiable objective reality exists?

[CCC460]

We are repeatedly told that this god is no longer visible to us because it wants humanity to believe in it and its teachings "by faith alone." That to make its existence unquestionable would eliminate the free choice to believe or not and so defeat the entire purpose of this life. 

Who is "repeatedly saying this"? This certainly isn't the teaching of of the Orthodox and Catholic faiths which recognize the visible presence of the invisible God in word, sacrament, sacerdotal ministry, and community.

[Acumen]

The difference is that my assertions correspond to the world we see.

That's what everyone claims, even those in mental health hospitals.  So you are in distinguished company, Omar.

So your position is that no such thing as verifiable objective reality exists?

No, that's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying that there are a lot of people that claim exclusive ownership of "objective reality", including those with mental illnesses that see pink unicorns flying over the moon.

• Children's Prayer.... unc... by SteveC [July 30, 2010, 11:08:14 PM]
• Riot against Messianic Je... by SteveC [July 30, 2010, 09:43:30 PM]
• Court Upholds Expulsion o... by SteveC [July 30, 2010, 09:25:51 PM]
• The Kids Are All Right. by SteveC [July 30, 2010, 09:08:19 PM]
• Honduras... here we come!... by SquirleyWurley [July 30, 2010, 06:23:50 PM]
• A thought by Betsy by kwd111 [July 29, 2010, 03:56:49 PM]
• 77'7" Kerrville Cross Rai... by SteveC [July 28, 2010, 01:54:13 PM]
• That Darling of Creationi... by SteveC [July 27, 2010, 05:51:56 PM]
• Segmentation & Evolution by SteveC [July 27, 2010, 10:56:42 AM]
• I must have overslept on ... by SteveC [July 26, 2010, 11:12:09 PM]
• 'Little Brown Balls' Tie ... by charliejohn [July 25, 2010, 07:34:39 PM]
• Whales Descended From Tin... by SteveC [July 25, 2010, 07:23:50 PM]
• South Pacific Plant May B... by SteveC [July 25, 2010, 07:05:31 PM]
• Transitional Species Exis... by SteveC [July 25, 2010, 05:09:41 PM]
• Fundamentalist's Peppered... by SteveC [July 25, 2010, 02:32:03 PM]
• Haeckel and his Embryos by SteveC [July 25, 2010, 10:36:39 AM]
• Flagellum,"poster child" ... by SteveC [July 24, 2010, 11:10:12 PM]
• Evo's Fundamentalist Posi... by Ed.W [July 22, 2010, 10:44:19 AM]

Members

• Total Members: 558
• Latest: Messedumbessy

Stats

• Total Posts: 86510
• Total Topics: 2615
• Online Today: 19
• Online Ever: 135
• (July 09, 2010, 02:08:16 PM)

Users Online

Users: 1
Guests: 20
Total: 21

SteveC