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    Poll
    Question: God...
    is Creator - 6 (75%)
    does not exist - 0 (0%)
    is Creation/All - 0 (0%)
    God/creation=nothing - 0 (0%)
    ...? - 2 (25%)
    Total Voters: 8

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    Author Topic: God is...  (Read 4320 times)
    Howiedds
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    « Reply #480 on: February 02, 2010, 04:36:15 PM »

    Kwd:

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    IMO... there is an aspect that has not been considered.  (Sorta what came first - the hen or the egg).

    I am not sure what you thought your quote from Kohler accomplished. It rehashed what I and some others had written.

    As I said, the source of the story was the apocryphal literature (CCC said apocalyptic and Palm agreed post biblical),  probably the Slavonic Book of Enoch. Sure enough, this quote from Kohler (whom you would not like at all if you knew anything about him) reaffirms that possible source. Both the Slavonic Enoch and the Slavonic Testament of Moses/Life of Adam and Eve (the same books in Greek and Latin respectively) are transmitted to us by Christianity, not Jews. These books started out as Jewish literature but were copied and recopied by Christians, much like Josephus.  Although we have a copy of Enoch from the Dead Sea Scrolls, the copies referred to by Kohler are Christian products (obviously because he died 25 years before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scroll of Enoch).

    So your reference to egg and hen here can be applied in ways you may not have intended. These references are in Slavonic, Christian versions of these stories.

    Just a bit more about Kohler. He represented the right wing radical Reform stream of Judaism 100 years ago. He insisted that Judaism was only a religion and pushed for Jews to imitate Christianity in its outer trappings here in America. You would not have liked his extremism in which he insisted that Torah was not from Sinai but an entirely human product without divine input. He was definitely not your kind of guy. He wasn't even my kind of guy. His form of Judaism was rejected by the 1930's here in America, although vestiges of his thinking still hangs on in places.
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    Howiedds
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    « Reply #481 on: February 02, 2010, 04:39:48 PM »

    Palm:

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    For, they simply don't authoritatively uphold Howie's previous assertion: that the term "Lucifer" exists due to strong Latin influence,

    I should have been clearer. I didn't mean that the story was Latin in origin, only that the actual name Lucifer was derived from the Latin "Lux" for "light" in trying to capture its original meaning of morning star or light or brightest light.
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    Palmtree
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    « Reply #482 on: February 02, 2010, 04:59:04 PM »

    Palm:

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    For, they simply don't authoritatively uphold Howie's previous assertion: that the term "Lucifer" exists due to strong Latin influence,

    I should have been clearer. I didn't mean that the story was Latin in origin, only that the actual name Lucifer was derived from the Latin "Lux" for "light" in trying to capture its original meaning of morning star or light or brightest light.

    I wasn't thinking that you were referring to the "story" either, but only the term "Lucifer". So, we are actually on the same page with that one.   Wink
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    CCC460
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    Divine mercy


    « Reply #483 on: February 02, 2010, 05:06:14 PM »

    There are a few books of Enoch. One of them is canonical to the Coptic Orthodox Church.

    Slavonic Enoch is referred to as 2 Enoch.

    But I don't really know the hsitory of either of except that the canonical book of Jude references 1 Enoch.
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    The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature"
    kwd111
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    All My Children (and some of the grandchildren) :)


    « Reply #484 on: February 02, 2010, 05:07:16 PM »

    Kwd:

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    IMO... there is an aspect that has not been considered.  (Sorta what came first - the hen or the egg).

    I am not sure what you thought your quote from Kohler accomplished. It rehashed what I and some others had written.


    Wasn't trying to accomplish anything except provide information... he just said it without being punchy.
    Quote

    So your reference to egg and hen here can be applied in ways you may not have intended. These references are in Slavonic, Christian versions of these stories.
    Just depends if you are in favor of the egg or the hen - yet both related.

    Quote
    Just a bit more about Kohler. He represented the right wing radical Reform stream of Judaism 100 years ago. He insisted that Judaism was only a religion and pushed for Jews to imitate Christianity in its outer trappings here in America. You would not have liked his extremism in which he insisted that Torah was not from Sinai but an entirely human product without divine input. He was definitely not your kind of guy. He wasn't even my kind of guy. His form of Judaism was rejected by the 1930's here in America, although vestiges of his thinking still hangs on in places.

    Thank you... very informative and certainly all new to me.
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    Howiedds
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    « Reply #485 on: February 02, 2010, 05:30:49 PM »

    Palm:

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    So, we are actually on the same page with that one. 

    A two day streak. Be still my heart.
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    Howiedds
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    « Reply #486 on: February 02, 2010, 05:32:29 PM »

    kwd:

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    he just said it without being punchy.

    Yeah, I gotta work on that.
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    kwd111
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    All My Children (and some of the grandchildren) :)


    « Reply #487 on: February 02, 2010, 06:11:22 PM »

    kwd:

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    he just said it without being punchy.

    Yeah, I gotta work on that.

    That's alright Howie, you are none the less appreciated for who you are.
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