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[Flitzerbiest]

It comes down to a single question. Is Jesus Christ the Son of God, co-equal in divinity, who suffered, died, was buried, rose again, and ascended into glory?

No.  Leastwise, nothing in that sentence can be verified or has any historical precedent.

Catholicism affirms that this is absolute unequivocable objective truth.

In that case, Catholicism is whacked.  Nothing can be known with that sort of certainty.

[CCC460]

It comes down to a single question. Is Jesus Christ the Son of God, co-equal in divinity, who suffered, died, was buried, rose again, and ascended into glory?

No.  Leastwise, nothing in that sentence can be verified or has any historical precedent.

Catholicism affirms that this is absolute unequivocable objective truth.

In that case, Catholicism is whacked.  Nothing can be known with that sort of certainty.

As I said in another thread, there are different kinds of knowing. Your statements are indicative of enlightenment thinking. I understand that many people have adopted that thinking today and believe that it is a better way, but it falls far short of being able to speak of any spritual reality and relegates anything worthy of believing to simply that which is historical. The problem with the quest for only the historical Jesus, or historical Christianity or historical judaism for that matter is that it rejects, a priori, the spiritual experience and transcendental nature of the bodily resurrection.

[Deacon777]

fb

Exactly what do you want from a religious "FAITH"? The assertion that one religion is just as good as another? I think we can safely say there are truths in all religions - but not all truths are created equally. There are (to us) a hierarchy of truths where the most revealed truth about God - is the "person" we call Jesus Christ. Now that may sound "whacked out" to you - but to us, we like the idea of God involving himself with humanity up close and personal - as opposed to far away up in the skies.

Other faiths see it differently, but I'll betcha they all think they are right (or more right) about ultimate reality than the "other" guys. In fact, ironically, what "we" (religious) all have in common is the certain belief that the Atheist explanation of reality is about as wrong as one can get.

What everybody (Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, etc. - with the possible exception of Buddaist) believe is that there is something eternal and living behind the veil of this life. Like I said, it is a hierarchy of truths - but no where on that hierarchy is Atheism.
 

[CCC460]

I think it is worthwhile to point out a distinction here.
Catholicism rejects the idea of "many paths to God". In this idea, any and all roads are equal.
Catholicism holds (as Deacon affirmed) that there is truth in all religions that point to the one true reality, God. There is a single truth because there is One God. That being said, God has revealed himself to all people.

However, there is a fullness of truth that alone subsists in the Catholic Church. This avoids the error of a dualism in which "we have truth and you don't". Catholicism recognizes that there is truth in all faiths, and the difference comes in the degree to which a religious faith approaches that divine reality.

There has been lots of arguing in the other threads in which some posters infer that someone must be right and someone must be wrong. I think that is an incorrect approach. Rather, the discussion is really about how do we attain to the fullness of what God has revealed about himself to humanity.

(Fullness, by the way, is the authentic understanding of the word catholicity).

If someone embraces a faith that is not in possession of the fullness of God's revelation to humanity, that does not mean they are false, bad, or on the road to hell. It simply is a recognition that ALL of us are on a pilgrim journey toward fulfillment in God.

[Flitzerbiest]

fb

Exactly what do you want from a religious "FAITH"? The assertion that one religion is just as good as another?

If the tangible results are the same, yes.   

I think we can safely say there are truths in all religions - but not all truths are created equally. There are (to us) a hierarchy of truths where the most revealed truth about God - is the "person" we call Jesus Christ.

Congratulations--you have pinpointed the reason why Christian  Now that may Christian results (spiritual discipline, inner peace, etc) often lag behind those of other faiths who fail to see a hierarchy of truths.

...we like the idea of God involving himself with humanity up close and personal - as opposed to far away up in the skies.

A god whose chief purpose is to be an object of worship can be located just about anywhere, and it makes no difference.  If you want to get up close and personal, you'll have to find God inside yourself.  It doesn't get any closer than that, and any farther opens the possibility that you are just following someone else's fantasy.

Other faiths see it differently, but I'll betcha they all think they are right (or more right) about ultimate reality than the "other" guys. In fact, ironically, what "we" (religious) all have in common is the certain belief that the Atheist explanation of reality is about as wrong as one can get.

Other religions, at least the ones most likely to survive the next couple of centuries, IMO, don't spend much time at all concerned about being right.  Being practical or useful is what is emphasized.

What everybody (Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, etc. - with the possible exception of Buddaist) believe is that there is something eternal and living behind the veil of this life. Like I said, it is a hierarchy of truths - but no where on that hierarchy is Atheism.

Feel free to tilt at windmills.  You are welcome to your own truth when speaking of untestable hypotheses regarding the rules and regs of an intangible dimension.  You simply have no claim to the high ground on any hierarchy of such truths.  The evidence for Brahman is as compelling (and uncompelling) as the evidence for YHWH.

[SteveC]

I think it is worthwhile to point out a distinction here.
Catholicism rejects the idea of "many paths to God". In this idea, any and all roads are equal.
Catholicism holds (as Deacon affirmed) that there is truth in all religions that point to the one true reality, God. There is a single truth because there is One God. That being said, God has revealed himself to all people.

However, there is a fullness of truth that alone subsists in the Catholic Church. This avoids the error of a dualism in which "we have truth and you don't". Catholicism recognizes that there is truth in all faiths, and the difference comes in the degree to which a religious faith approaches that divine reality.

There has been lots of arguing in the other threads in which some posters infer that someone must be right and someone must be wrong. I think that is an incorrect approach. Rather, the discussion is really about how do we attain to the fullness of what God has revealed about himself to humanity.

(Fullness, by the way, is the authentic understanding of the word catholicity).

If someone embraces a faith that is not in possession of the fullness of God's revelation to humanity, that does not mean they are false, bad, or on the road to hell. It simply is a recognition that ALL of us are on a pilgrim journey toward fulfillment in God.

Wonderful bit of wordsmithing there, CCC. Did it make you feel good, because it makes absolutely no sense. What good is having some truth, if it doesn't answer the question? The bottom line remains, that if the truth isn't Christianity, it isn't any good. You just use double-talk to cover up obvious flaws, hoping that everyone will be impressed or confused.

However, there is a fullness of truth that alone subsists in the Catholic Church.

That still spells - exclusivity. You've got something that other faiths don't. Catholocism has something to teach, that other cultures and faiths should focus their attention on, or else!.

I'd rather you be honest than go through the same spiritual and intellectual gyrations that our fundamentalist friends go through.

[SteveC]

It comes down to a single question. Is Jesus Christ the Son of God, co-equal in divinity, who suffered, died, was buried, rose again, and ascended into glory?

No.  Leastwise, nothing in that sentence can be verified or has any historical precedent.

Catholicism affirms that this is absolute unequivocable objective truth.

In that case, Catholicism is whacked.  Nothing can be known with that sort of certainty.

As I said in another thread, there are different kinds of knowing. Your statements are indicative of enlightenment thinking. I understand that many people have adopted that thinking today and believe that it is a better way, but it falls far short of being able to speak of any spritual reality and relegates anything worthy of believing to simply that which is historical. The problem with the quest for only the historical Jesus, or historical Christianity or historical judaism for that matter is that it rejects, a priori, the spiritual experience and transcendental nature of the bodily resurrection.

Duh!! And you accept, a priori, that the spiritual experience and transcendental nature of the bodily resurrection is a historical fact, with one major exception, you rely on voodoo and spooks as the catalyst.

[Flitzerbiest]

The evidence for the central truths of Christianity (the resurrection, the divinity of Jesus, etc) boils down to the testimony of an entrenched, self-perpetuating religious aristocracy.  Catholic theology is true because the Catholic Church says it is.  Not particularly compelling.

[CCC460]

, because it makes absolutely no sense.

Sorry you are unable to understand it.


 

The bottom line remains, that if the truth isn't Christianity, it isn't any good.

St. Paul said the same thing.

[CCC460]

The evidence for the central truths of Christianity (the resurrection, the divinity of Jesus, etc) boils down to the testimony of an entrenched, self-perpetuating religious aristocracy.  Catholic theology is true because the Catholic Church says it is.  Not particularly compelling.

Of course not. No one would believe it the way you've described it.
It's a false characterization, though.

[SteveC]

, because it makes absolutely no sense.

Sorry you are unable to understand it.


 

The bottom line remains, that if the truth isn't Christianity, it isn't any good.

St. Paul said the same thing.

Sorry, I thought you were different.

[Flitzerbiest]

The bottom line remains, that if the truth isn't Christianity, it isn't any good.

St. Paul said the same thing.

...and St. Paul had a red phone to God, so it must be true.

[Deacon777]

FB

You are welcome to your own truth when speaking of untestable hypotheses regarding the rules and regs of an intangible dimension.  You simply have no claim to the high ground on any hierarchy of such truths.  The evidence for Brahman is as compelling (and uncompelling) as the evidence for YHWH.

Can't you even see you too are playing the same game? At the pinnacle of YOUR hierarchy of truths lies your absolute faith in relativism. It is a belief that seems to drive all your thinking about non-falsifiable propositions. You have lots of company here. Many people find comfort in the idea of believing there are no absolutes in life - so they bend their knee at the alter of relativism.  

[SteveC]

FB
Many people find comfort in the idea of believing there are no absolutes in life - so they bend their knee at the alter of relativism.  

What rewards do we get for bending our knees at the alter of relativism?

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