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    Author Topic: What do the gods have to offer?  (Read 144 times)
    Flitzerbiest
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    « on: November 02, 2009, 10:54:33 AM »

    I hope you'll welcome a friendly (albeit highly skeptical) inquiry.  I have come to appreciate the Pagans on this forum as intelligent participants, friendly and deliciously tolerant people.  As such Paganism seems to me to be no threat to anyone, and of subjective benefit to its adherents, begging apology for lumping you all together on the basis of common characteristics, and understanding that your beliefs are quite diverse.

    All that said, what do the gods offer you?  Specifically, what benefit do you derive from your association with them, in what manner do you commune with them and to what extent do they enrich your lives in ways that you would otherwise not be able to do on your own?

    In essence, why bother?  
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    Gorm_Sionnach
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    « Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 12:19:48 PM »

    I can only speak from my perspective and feelings on it, so keeping that in mind.

    There are numerous reasons I can think of, but the primary reason is that I felt pulled to where I am now. Between a lot of personal and spiritual growth since I began my inquiry into religious thought and beliefs when I was a teen, and my expanding knowledge base, Celtic Reconstructionism was where I wound up, being both a mythology nut and history buff, of all the myriad Pagan religions out there, it appealed to me the most. Even at the outset, anything "Celtic" (and albeit, as I learned more about the original myths, historic texts and scholarly journals, this became an ever narrowing category) was of great interest to me.

    As to belief in polytheism, it was the most sensible choice. There have been thousands of cultures, each with their own unique* mythological history, cosmogony and anthropogony. I've never been a fan of the idea of universalist notions, people are people, separate, unique, individual, why should the divine be any different? To me, soft polytheism, monotheism, pantheism were simply ways of trying to explain current beliefs, and justifying the dismissal of other belief systems as wrong, evil, what have you. Most human cultures seem to have begun as polytheist's, only later did monotheism make the scene and come to dominate, for any number of reasons. I suppose one of the questions I always take into consideration is why ought this mythology be accepted as true, but all these others dismissed as false? I suppose they could all be dismissed as false, but that would not address UPG.

    UPG is a term which many Pagans will often use, it means unverified personal gnosis. It is an experience, be it a dream, trance, ecstatic ritual, prayer, meditation, etc. in which one encounters something they belief to be divine/ spiritual/etc for which they have no explanation for outside their frame of reference. Many will tell you they have spoken to their Gods, experienced their Gods, etc. It could certainly be a hallucination, their imagination, a delusion, I prefer to take it at face value, because I was not there, and whats more because it was Personal it has no effect on me one way or another. Now there are instances where we have SPG (shared personal gnosis) usually experienced in a group setting, simultaneously but geographically separated, or independently but reaching the same conclusion. These are slightly more difficult to dismiss, albeit it certainly one could come up with reasons to do so. As an aside, among Reconstructionists, the UPG is generally weighed against the mythological/ historic texts and we interpret such things through that lens.

    Now, this is something else which is important (at least from my perspective) I have a considerably different understanding of what qualifies as a deity, than what is widely understood. The divinities of Ireland are very anthropomorphic, they have wants, desires, needs, loves, hates, and share similar social and emotional structures with humans. They are immanent in the way that a disembodied, omnipresent, omniscient, or pantheistic God could never be. CR, and many of the Pagan religions are not concerned with what comes after death, in fact among CR's (and the mythological) sources, there are competing concepts as to the fate of the dead, and the only sure thing is that we die. But I prefer to see this as a strength, because life becomes more precious, and what we do now, how we live, is what is important; we are able to live ethical lives, for the sake of ethics. We are not trying to escape, we are not doing it to get into a paradisaical state after death, we do it because it is the best way to live.

    Now, my particular religious tradition, Fálachus, believes that our relationships with the Gods (and land spirits, and ancestors), is based on the traditional concept of what amounts to the swearing of oaths, the maintaining of contracts and fulfilling of those obligations, which are known as Cairdes. While everyone in the tradition I belong to acknowledges the Gaelic (Irish/Scottish) myths as the essential myths, we do not necessarily all have oaths to the same Gods. Often, the relationship is based on ones profession, I for example have two "Patron" deities, Ogma and Donn. One "came" through UPG (Ogma) the other through what is to be my profession (Donn). It is not the same as having a "personal" relationship (though, many Pagans do in fact have just this), but our interactions are through the avenue of Cairdes first and foremost, as this is how it was originally done (hence, why we call ourselves Reconstructionists).

    I suppose the simplest explanation is that I am compelled to believe as I do, having experienced the divine in such a manner as to not take it lightly (one does not merely brush off a God). I therefore choose to believe as I do, concluding that my framework for interpreting such interactions is valid, and not simply delusion.
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    Due civility never broke a mans head, and great is the pity to be at any time without it
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