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    Author Topic: Conservative Bible  (Read 1860 times)
    TPaine
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    « Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 11:26:55 AM »

    I think it's rather amusing that some conservatives believe it's necessary to rewrite the Bible to suit their political beliefs. Wouldn't it suit them better to correct some of the errors in existing translations such as the Abiathar/Ahimelech mistake in Mark 2, the scribal addition of the story of the woman taken in adultery in John 8, and the disparity between Mark and John as to what day Jesus was crucified on among many others.

    I haven't read their version so I really can't comment on it's substance.  For all I know it is just a marketing strategy used to counteract the genderless Bible that was just made.

    But I really don't see any substance on your part to quote the so called "errors" that you mined from the Internet from faithless sites.

    Those areas have been explained satisfactorily countless times and one can find those answers in the faithfull sites also on the inertnet.

    And what makes you think I "mined" these errors from some faithless web site? You're wrong. I "mined" them from decades of study long before there was an Internet. I don't need the Internet to find errors in such a flawed book. Only those who cling to the fantasy that the Christian Bible is the inerrant Word of God still refuse to admit the obvious.
    Apparently you "studied" or "mined" them with a decision already made.  Vision becomes skewed when that happens.
    Wrong. When I started studying, I was a Christian. Actually reading the Bible objectively drove me away from it.

    Quote
    The Abiathar/Ahimelech mistake in Mark 2 was listed on the Conservative Bible Project site itself http://www.conservapedia.com /Mark_1-8_%28Translated%29#Chapter_2
    I don't know about the "conservapedia" - I haven't read it

    But as far a Abiathar/Ahimelech... try studying more... the internet is now available.

    (i) In ( 1 Samuel 21:1 ) he is called Ahimelech and his son is called Abiathar, but by conferring other places it is plain that both of them had two names; see ( 1 Chronicles 24:6 ; 2 Samuel 8:17 ; 2 Samuel 15:29 ; 1 Kings 2:26 ; 2 Kings 25:18 ).

    Okay, so you proved that the OT authors couldn't get their stories straight either. Am I supposed to be impressed?

    If the story of the woman taken in adultery isn't a scribal addition why then is it not found in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts of John? Why is it found in some manuscripts following John 21:25 and even following Luke 21:38? If you want to debate this further, feel free. In fact, why don't you start a thread about the Bible being the inerrant Word of God, and we'll see if you can rationalize all the errors, contradictions, and scribal additions and deletions.

    Debating?  As you can see from the above, you (Mr. Paine) can rationalize into an error anything you want to make it as such.  If your approach is "it is false" then you will make it false.  It is not different than someone saying "I will never be able to make 100 meters in less that 10 seconds" and think he can... not only can he not but then he will say "see, there's the proof that you can't".  But someone believed and did.

    I know where the errors are at - almost all of them are numerical.  It doesn't change my faith - nor does it change the immutability of God's Word.

    A wise man is one who sees where man was involved in the transcribing error and makes allowance for it.  Additionally a wise man can figure out that if the scripture says 400 men in one place and 4,000 in another - not only can he figure out which one is correct but also understand that the message didn't change in the process.

    Now... what would be an error is if in one place it say that David cut off Goliath's head and in another it say Goliath cut David's head.

    As far as the woman in adultery... you can study up on it... Wikipedia (although not a secure source) still does pretty good in explaining it and it is great for beginners... it will probably help you.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pericope_Adulteræ
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery#Manuscript_evidence

    First of all (Mr kwd) I never claimed the story of the woman taken in adultery was an error. I said it was an addition made by a scribe at a later date and was not originally a part of John. I'll pass on wiki as a dependable source. And look who's accusing who of rationalizing. You're claiming the Bible is God's Word, yet give no proof that the statement is true. Just because you say it's so doesn't make it so. Show the evidence.
    Just because I love wasting time, here's another couple of points for you to think about. Explain why Mark and John disagree on what day Jesus was crucified. I can't wait to see the apologist answer to this. Oh, and since we're at one end of his life, let's go to the other end. When was Jesus born? was it before 4 BCE or in 6 CE? According to Matthew it was before the death of Herod. According to Luke it was when Quirinius was governor of Syria after Augustus had Archelaus deposed as Herod's successor. Only one of the two can be right.
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    "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and it seeks to pursue us into eternity" -- Thomas Paine from a letter to the Hon. Thomas Erskine
    kwd111
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    « Reply #16 on: April 27, 2010, 07:01:13 AM »

    I think it's rather amusing that some conservatives believe it's necessary to rewrite the Bible to suit their political beliefs. Wouldn't it suit them better to correct some of the errors in existing translations such as the Abiathar/Ahimelech mistake in Mark 2, the scribal addition of the story of the woman taken in adultery in John 8, and the disparity between Mark and John as to what day Jesus was crucified on among many others.

    I haven't read their version so I really can't comment on it's substance.  For all I know it is just a marketing strategy used to counteract the genderless Bible that was just made.

    But I really don't see any substance on your part to quote the so called "errors" that you mined from the Internet from faithless sites.

    Those areas have been explained satisfactorily countless times and one can find those answers in the faithfull sites also on the inertnet.

    And what makes you think I "mined" these errors from some faithless web site? You're wrong. I "mined" them from decades of study long before there was an Internet. I don't need the Internet to find errors in such a flawed book. Only those who cling to the fantasy that the Christian Bible is the inerrant Word of God still refuse to admit the obvious.

    Apparently you "studied" or "mined" them with a decision already made.  Vision becomes skewed when that happens.
    Wrong. When I started studying, I was a Christian. Actually reading the Bible objectively drove me away from it.

    Quote
    The Abiathar/Ahimelech mistake in Mark 2 was listed on the Conservative Bible Project site itself http://www.conservapedia.com /Mark_1-8_%28Translated%29#Chapter_2
    I don't know about the "conservapedia" - I haven't read it

    But as far a Abiathar/Ahimelech... try studying more... the internet is now available.

    (i) In ( 1 Samuel 21:1 ) he is called Ahimelech and his son is called Abiathar, but by conferring other places it is plain that both of them had two names; see ( 1 Chronicles 24:6 ; 2 Samuel 8:17 ; 2 Samuel 15:29 ; 1 Kings 2:26 ; 2 Kings 25:18 ).

    Okay, so you proved that the OT authors couldn't get their stories straight either. Am I supposed to be impressed?

    You just proved my point.  You approach it with unbelief therefore no explanation is enough.  You remind me of the quote of Billy Graham "To my friends no explanation is necessary and to my enemies no explanation will ever be enough".  Not that you are my enemy nor are you my friend but definitely no explanation will ever be enough.

    Jacob is also Israel.  Abram is also Abraham.  Gideon is also Jerubbaal.  A very common practice of the time.

    My name is Kenneth Wayne... my son is also - sometimes my son is Wayne and sometime Kenneth.

    It is a matter of approach and the condition of the heart.

    One thing for sure... if you DID study before... this one was so easy to answer it is quite obvious that either you weren't truthful or you did a lousy job of studying.



    Quote
    First of all (Mr kwd) I never claimed the story of the woman taken in adultery was an error.


    Never said you did.  I was talking about the names.

    Quote
    I said it was an addition made by a scribe at a later date and was not originally a part of John. I'll pass on wiki as a dependable source.


    You obviously didn't read what I said.  I told you, in other words, that wiki isn't always a dependable source... but that the did a good job on this one.

    Quote
    And look who's accusing who of rationalizing. You're claiming the Bible is God's Word, yet give no proof that the statement is true. Just because you say it's so doesn't make it so. Show the evidence.

    Condition of your heart.  Why should I talk to you about something when you don't even read what I offered?

    Quote
    Just because I love wasting time, here's another couple of points for you to think about.
    Yes... I am coming close to quit wasting my time with you.

    Quote
    Explain why Mark and John disagree on what day Jesus was crucified. I can't wait to see the apologist answer to this

    Quit making me do all the work.... just what did you mine about the two?

    Quote
    . Oh, and since we're at one end of his life, let's go to the other end. When was Jesus born? was it before 4 BCE or in 6 CE? According to Matthew it was before the death of Herod. According to Luke it was when Quirinius was governor of Syria after Augustus had Archelaus deposed as Herod's successor. Only one of the two can be right.

    http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con100.asp

    Read it and learn.

    As soon as you "investigate" the death discrepancies and I answer it, I will supply the information.... but after that Mr. T. Pain, I think I will have wasted enough time with you.

    You have demonstrated that your problem is a heart problem which causes your approach to be that of faithlessness.  No answer will even be enough for you.  You may feel free to reject Jesus Christ - it is your free will decision.  You have opened your mouth, stuck your foot in it and shown that you haven't even begun to study.

    May I suggest you get out of your diapers and put on some pants instead?  After studying, that is.

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    SteveC
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    « Reply #17 on: April 27, 2010, 07:41:12 AM »

    I will blow up all those who can't fix their quote issues, using my advanced mental capacity. Angry
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    Acumen
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    « Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 11:51:38 AM »

    Yeah, that IS quite annoying.
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    TPaine
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    « Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 02:28:16 PM »

    Yeah, that IS quite annoying.
    I agree. It is very annoying. I'm not familiar with the quote features on this board. Tell me how to manage them and I'll be happy to clean it up. I have no idea who said what in the last round of posts so I can't even respond to it.
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    "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and it seeks to pursue us into eternity" -- Thomas Paine from a letter to the Hon. Thomas Erskine
    kwd111
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    « Reply #20 on: April 27, 2010, 04:23:52 PM »

    cleaned it up some - had to remove a couple of comments
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    Acumen
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    « Reply #21 on: April 27, 2010, 06:04:30 PM »

    It's hard to explain how to clean it up unless you have some experience working with html code.
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    SquirleyWurley
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    ...


    « Reply #22 on: April 30, 2010, 05:24:42 PM »

    It's Russian Dolls all the way down.
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