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[Gwyddion9]

S.W.

True, Wicca is not a recon. and it is a modern religious movement. I don’t have any problems with that, as it’s a fact. All religions have a starting point in time but that doesn’t negate their effectiveness or their value. As you pointed out, Wicca is an experimental and self-exploring religion. I doubt that the age of the religion has anything to do with how it is perceived but rather it fits the beliefs of the dominate religion, in this case and in this country, Christianity. People scoff at it because it is by nature, not Christian and unabashedly so. Wicca owes nothing to Christianity. The understanding of Deity, the nature of the Gods, creation, how everything interacts and its connectivity is very different. The concept and use of magick, which is not the sole domain of Wicca but a belief that is shared by many Pagans. I love the fact that Wicca is not contained in a book or books simply because how does one confine/define deity to or in a book? It’s not possible. At best, it’s very one sided or simply one perception which has been given a dominate view, which is still no guarantee that it’s correct. In Wicca, I was taught to seek out all things, to learn as much a possible in all things and if I have questions, again, seek the answer. My Gods hold nothing back from me and if I desire to learn, teach or provide the necessary elements for me to learn. I think the biggest plus, to me, regarding Wicca, is that the Gods are personal and not aloof. They are in and through all things, above and below all things, they are a part of all creation so there is really no place that one can go where they are not there or accessible. Having been Christian, for me, Wicca brought a freedom that Christianity could never give or offer, an honest approach to life, unfettered by unrealistic and unreasonable demands and beliefs that one has to adhere to. That humanity is exactly as is created to be, perfect in all its complexities, it’s good points and bad points. It is the choices we make in this life that makes the difference. Also, to be honest, to be humble and to have integrity in all that is done.

Gorm,
Thank you.   

[SteveC]

Well yes I ought to distinguish between 'fluffy bunnies' and others.

But Wicca isn't reconstructionist, it is a hodge-podge, modern invention.  Much of the negative attitudes about Wicca spring from this, even if it weren't for the 'fluffy bunnies'

Time is irrelevant when discussing religion. There was a time when Christianity was only 5 minutes old and had a considerable amount of negative attitudes about it. Another gray area you missed, SW

Like what?

How about the suspicions of a hostile Jewish and Roman establishment.

[SquirleyWurley]

In the context of this thread, my comments are simply looking at how the media reports things, and how many people in our culture evaluate things.

It is not surprising to me that NRM's of various kinds get jumped upon: it's sensational, exotic, new, wide open for sarcastic appraisals, etc., by people who want to poke fun.

It is also not surprising that anything that touches on anything mysterious/supernatural/miraculous/magical gets jumped on in our arrogantly materialistic culture.

When you add to this a taboo element (magick, many gods/goddesses) the media/popular culture has yet more to play with in mockery.

[Gorm_Sionnach]

In the context of this thread, my comments are simply looking at how the media reports things, and how many people in our culture evaluate things.

It is not surprising to me that NRM's of various kinds get jumped upon: it's sensational, exotic, new, wide open for sarcastic appraisals, etc., by people who want to poke fun.

It is also not surprising that anything that touches on anything mysterious/supernatural/miraculous/magical gets jumped on in our arrogantly materialistic culture.

When you add to this a taboo element (magick, many gods/goddesses) the media/popular culture has yet more to play with in mockery.

But then, look at the way Christianity is often the subject of fun (if you want to get into popular culture) much more so than something like Wicca.

A perfect measure would be the Simpsons. Christianity is a constant target, whether it be the Flandereses, the Good Reverend Lovejoy, or any number of parishioners, the fact that it is so ingrained in Western culture, means that the jokes reach a far broader audience than say, a one off comment by Bart about Lisa, "Casting a spell on me", to which an ever aloof Lisa retorts, "Its not a spell, it's Wicca, and its empowering"

I believe the more established religion is far more open to criticism and satire than many NRM's because it is familiar and known by a wider swath of the population.

What one does find in the spoofs and satire of an NRM such as Wicca, is not a critical evaluation of religious hypocrisy, of religiosity vs modernity, of disenchantment in a scientific world, but rather knee jerk, superficial off the cuff commentaries and one offs, for no other reason than people simply do not know that much about it. Believing a stereotype as an accurate portrayal is much easier when general information is not widely available in mainstream culture, so while there are criticisms, they are themselves shallow and based off of ignorance, and not knowledge.

[SquirleyWurley]

Small and new movements get reactions that are knee-jerk and shallow, yes, often with misunderstandings/misrepresentations thrown in.

Christian or non-Christian, if it is new and small, this sort of thing will happen.  When it is non-Christian there's even more of the 'otherness' factor thrown in.

[Gorm_Sionnach]

Small and new movements get reactions that are knee-jerk and shallow, yes, often with misunderstandings/misrepresentations thrown in.

Christian or non-Christian, if it is new and small, this sort of thing will happen.  When it is non-Christian there's even more of the 'otherness' factor thrown in.

Fair enough, but my point (or my original point) was that Wicca and Paganism in general are beyond the point where we should be framing our discussions of ourselves as what we don't do, and should be focusing on what we do do. Nor should we accept the portrayal that Paganism is for flakes and weirdos, as in any group there are some, but to make this an issue or even mention it is rather counter productive. Likewise, that the idea of Satanic service/worship is part and parcel of many mainline Christian's imagining of Paganism is something which should be addressed, no doubt, but it can be done in ways which are better than focusing an article around, "We don''t worship the Devil".

I'll give you an example of what I consider a good article ( I posted a link to it in an earlier post, but I'll repost it here)

Who you calling a Witch?

While there is a small blurb which makes the no Satan comment, it is deeper in the article and framed from a Pagan's perspective (keep in mind the article is almost years old too boot.)

[SquirleyWurley]

In that article there was a decent bit of information about various types of neo-pagans, how they perceive themselves and explain their views and how they arrived where they are, yes.

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