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poi
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« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2009, 06:58:04 AM » |
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So it is OK to imprison and execute criminals but taking organs from their dead bodies to save innocent life is going too far?Interesting.I value my freedom and life much more than my corpse but to each his own.
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ChicagoHeathen
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« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2009, 03:14:18 PM » |
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It is not necessarily okay to execute criminals, but imprisoning them is generally okay. The criminal justice system needs to be made better, and I don't think mandatory organ donation will help things any.
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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
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Coachbob
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« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2009, 08:13:32 PM » |
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So it is OK to imprison and execute criminals but taking organs from their dead bodies to save innocent life is going too far?Interesting.I value my freedom and life much more than my corpse but to each his own.
And I presume that you have signed an organ donation card. Prisoners are free to do that, too. I also presume that since you value your freedom and life you will not make yourself a candidate for a long prison term or execution. |
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Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say,
"It is well, it is well, with my soul."
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poi
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« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2009, 08:31:43 PM » |
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You presume correctly on both counts.I am puzzled that anyone would not be an organ donor.It is a chance to do something so wonderful for someone else.
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Mountain_Man
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« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2009, 10:01:20 PM » |
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So it is OK to imprison and execute criminals... No, it is not OK to kill people. ...but taking organs from their dead bodies to save innocent life is going too far? How do you know the life is "innocent"? Interesting.I value my freedom and life much more than my corpse but to each his own. Good. But you have no right to make that decision for someone else. |
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Mountain Man Dave.
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
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poi
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« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2009, 04:48:13 AM » |
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By innocent I simply mean a non-criminal.Society assumes the right to put law breakers in prison.This imposes very real suffering.What suffering comes from organ removal?One can certainly make a case against capital punishment but if a society chooses to execute criminals,why not add some goodness to the tragedy?Are you concerned that transplantations without the criminal's consent would lead to more executions?
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Mountain_Man
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« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2009, 09:14:41 PM » |
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By innocent I simply mean a non-criminal. Then you would have to do a complete background check on anyone getting any transplant, and you would have to predict future behavior. Society assumes the right to put law breakers in prison.This imposes very real suffering.What suffering comes from organ removal? It devalues all of humanity. One can certainly make a case against capital punishment but if a society chooses to execute criminals,why not add some goodness to the tragedy? Because we are trying to improve society, not go backwards. Are you concerned that transplantations without the criminal's consent would lead to more executions? I rarely fall for such "slippery slope" arguments. Unless you choose to take organs from anyone in a society that dies it would be immoral to take them from dead prisoners. Just because they are in prison you cannot take away their humanity. |
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Mountain Man Dave.
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
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wmdkitty
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« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2009, 09:29:47 PM » |
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Dave, one could argue that they "gave up" their humanity the moment they committed their crime.
/devil's advocate
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Mountain_Man
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« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2009, 11:02:17 PM » |
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Dave, one could argue that they "gave up" their humanity the moment they committed their crime.
They could, but they would be wrong. One's humanity is intrinsic, not extrinsic. It cannot be given up or taken away. |
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Mountain Man Dave.
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
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wmdkitty
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« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2009, 11:06:54 PM » |
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Dave, one could argue that they "gave up" their humanity the moment they committed their crime.
They could, but they would be wrong. One's humanity is intrinsic, not extrinsic. It cannot be given up or taken away. Just sayin' Personally, I'm a little squicked at the idea of mandatory organ "donation." |
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Mountain_Man
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« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2009, 11:08:53 PM » |
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Just sayin'
Personally, I'm a little squicked at the idea of mandatory organ "donation." It's the mandatory part, and the dehumanizing, that are the problems. |
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Mountain Man Dave.
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
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poi
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« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2009, 12:28:45 AM » |
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Pursuing a more humane society is indeed a laudable goal.I simply don't see anyone's humanity harmed by the removal of a few organs from a corpse.I can understand the friends or family confusing the state of the remains with the well being or humanity of the departed.It is difficult to emotionally accept that the body is no longer the person it once was.The treatment of the corpse becomes an outlet for emotional pain.The funeral industry is built on this unfortunate reality.IMO a person's humanity is only affected by what happens before their death.
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wmdkitty
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« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2009, 01:41:10 AM » |
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Just sayin'
Personally, I'm a little squicked at the idea of mandatory organ "donation." It's the mandatory part, and the dehumanizing, that are the problems. Yeah, that's what makes my skin crawl. |
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Mountain_Man
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« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2009, 08:18:26 AM » |
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Pursuing a more humane society is indeed a laudable goal. Every statement you've made in this thread goes against that goal. So, is this a goal you wish to achieve but only when convenient or easy? I simply don't see anyone's humanity harmed by the removal of a few organs from a corpse..... Then I can't help you understand. I've already stated why several times, but to no avail. Sorry. |
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Mountain Man Dave.
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
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poi
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« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2009, 11:44:05 AM » |
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A society where fewer people die while waiting for transplants sounds more humane to me.I suspect it would to you too.We simply disagree about the price to be paid.You see human dignity connected to the treatment of corpses.I would agree if I believed such treatment affected the individual's afterlife but I don't.Perhaps you do.
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