"Christian Atheism"... an oxymoron?

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[dadman]

What do you think about my unorthodox methods of placing my faith and trust in god through his son Jesus?

according to the scripture ??

          I didn't think so . . . . . .

[Metis]

"Christian Atheism"... an oxymoron?

Not neccesarily.  If one believed Jesus' teachings on general morality was right on target, but disagreed with his views dealing with God or even if there is a God, then one might call themselves a "Christian atheist".  The catch-22, however, is that "Christ" means "messiah" and the definition of "messiah" is one who is annointed ultimately by God as a leader, therefore a substitute for the name "Christian" might be in order.

Also, how we define "atheist" may be a sticking point.  I define it as one who believes there is no god, but some define it as any non-belief in a god.  For example, Buddhists are not "atheists" under the first definition but may be under the second definition depending on which raft they're on (most Mahayana Buddhists do believe there may be various deities).

[wiscidea]

The catch-22, however, is that "Christ" means "messiah" and the definition of "messiah" is one who is annointed ultimately by God as a leader, therefore a substitute for the name "Christian" might be in order.

What if one defines "God" as some sort of mysterious principle that unites everything or defines "God" as nature? Could the Christ or Messiah have been anointed by nature? Could His leadership emerge as a natural phenomenon and/or appeal to people just because it appeals to people? Thus.... a Christian Atheist. Could Jesus be the Christ without being linked to a supernatural creator God who has a personal interest in the affairs of men?

[SquirleyWurley]

For the sake of clarity of language at the very least, one ought not to call anyone a Christian if they are an atheist by either of your definitions, Metis.

Not only does the term Christ mean someone annointed by God, it very clearly means someone annointed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

[Metis]

The catch-22, however, is that "Christ" means "messiah" and the definition of "messiah" is one who is annointed ultimately by God as a leader, therefore a substitute for the name "Christian" might be in order.

What if one defines "God" as some sort of mysterious principle that unites everything or defines "God" as nature? Could the Christ or Messiah have been anointed by nature? Could His leadership emerge as a natural phenomenon and/or appeal to people just because it appeals to people? Thus.... a Christian Atheist. Could Jesus be the Christ without being linked to a supernatural creator God who has a personal interest in the affairs of men?

Hypothetically yes, since we saw such an approach taken by Baruch Spinoza who found much greater affilinity with liberal Christians than he did with orthodox Jews.  Now, mind you, I'm not saying that this approach is correct or even logical since that's really quite subjective.  Even today, certainly I think Spong and certain other very liberal theolgians may not discount what you wrote above.

[Metis]

For the sake of clarity of language at the very least, one ought not to call anyone a Christian if they are an atheist by either of your definitions, Metis.

Not only does the term Christ mean someone annointed by God, it very clearly means someone annointed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

That's what I said-- or at least was trying to say.

[jcarlinsv]

"Christian Atheism"... an oxymoron?

I learned about the existence of this while searching for something else on the internet. I'm not sure it is a coherent movement. Basically, seems to be people who agree with everything Jesus taught MINUS the God stuff. Or they have such a nebulous all-encompassing God concept, that belief or non-belief is irrelevant.

I have found many folks in traditional denominations especially that have rejected Paul's Christ and the testosterone poisoned God of the Old Testament and with Jefferson have fallen back on the Synoptic Gospels especially the second great commandment of Jesus as the basis for their religious beliefs.  They probably still attend their traditional church for the ritual, music, and social connection, but their religion has little to do with the preaching of the little tinhorn in the fancy dress in the overdecorated balcony
Edit: this was submitted prematurely the completion follows:
Some may have rejected God completely and have become atheists inspired by Jesus the human itinerant preacher-entertainer. Others may retain some God concept usually Jefferson's Deism to stay connected with their milk religion, but in neither case can they be considered Christian.  I call them Jesuists. http://jcarlinsv.blogspot.com/2008/07/jesuism.html I have found them surprisingly common even in Catholic churches.  Atheism or Deism is really not an important question for most of them.  The Second Great Commandment and the Sermon on the Mount are the important things in their personal religion. 

[Coachbob]

"Christian Atheism"... an oxymoron?

I learned about the existence of this while searching for something else on the internet. I'm not sure it is a coherent movement. Basically, seems to be people who agree with everything Jesus taught MINUS the God stuff. Or they have such a nebulous all-encompassing God concept, that belief or non-belief is irrelevant.

I have found many folks in traditional denominations especially that have rejected Paul's Christ and the testosterone poisoned God of the Old Testament and with Jefferson have fallen back on the Synoptic Gospels especially the second great commandment of Jesus as the basis for their religious beliefs.  They probably still attend their traditional church for the ritual, music, and social connection, but their religion has little to do with the preaching of the little tinhorn in the fancy dress in the overdecorated balcony

Could that post possibly be any more hate filled?

[jcarlinsv]

Could that post possibly be any more hate filled?

Sure, I could have told you what I really think of Paul, The Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and the tinhorns that preach hatred of gays, uppity women, blacks, and anyone who doesn't contribute major bucks to support their hate filled ministry.

[SteveC]

For the sake of clarity of language at the very least, one ought not to call anyone a Christian if they are an atheist by either of your definitions, Metis.

Not only does the term Christ mean someone annointed by God, it very clearly means someone annointed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Good show, SQ, good show. At least Christians can agree on what Christianity isn't, before they go back to squabbling over what Christianity is.

[SteveC]

"Christian Atheism"... an oxymoron?

I learned about the existence of this while searching for something else on the internet. I'm not sure it is a coherent movement. Basically, seems to be people who agree with everything Jesus taught MINUS the God stuff. Or they have such a nebulous all-encompassing God concept, that belief or non-belief is irrelevant.

I have found many folks in traditional denominations especially that have rejected Paul's Christ and the testosterone poisoned God of the Old Testament and with Jefferson have fallen back on the Synoptic Gospels especially the second great commandment of Jesus as the basis for their religious beliefs.  They probably still attend their traditional church for the ritual, music, and social connection, but their religion has little to do with the preaching of the little tinhorn in the fancy dress in the overdecorated balcony

Could that post possibly be any more hate filled?

Yes.

[SteveC]

Could that post possibly be any more hate filled?

Sure, I could have told you what I really think of Paul, The Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and the tinhorns that preach hatred of gays, uppity women, blacks, and anyone who doesn't contribute major bucks to support their hate filled ministry.

That was better.

[jcarlinsv]

Could that post possibly be any more hate filled?

Sure, I could have told you what I really think of Paul, The Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and the tinhorns that preach hatred of gays, uppity women, blacks, and anyone who doesn't contribute major bucks to support their hate filled ministry.

That was better.

We aim to please!

[SquirleyWurley]

For the sake of clarity of language at the very least, one ought not to call anyone a Christian if they are an atheist by either of your definitions, Metis.

Not only does the term Christ mean someone annointed by God, it very clearly means someone annointed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

That's what I said-- or at least was trying to say.

Acknowledged

Good show, SQ, good show. At least Christians can agree on what Christianity isn't, before they go back to squabbling over what Christianity is.

Actually, up until the Protestant reformation, the overwhelming majority of Christendom was united on many many things.  Many reforms were necessary, but in the course of reforming things many things were disputed and revised which were considered settled for many many centuries.

Where the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches agree, and when you add those insights from Protestants which do not contradict, there is quite a bit of tradition, history, and theology that every Christian ought to rejoice in and agree to.

[SteveC]

For the sake of clarity of language at the very least, one ought not to call anyone a Christian if they are an atheist by either of your definitions, Metis.

Not only does the term Christ mean someone annointed by God, it very clearly means someone annointed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

That's what I said-- or at least was trying to say.

Acknowledged

Good show, SQ, good show. At least Christians can agree on what Christianity isn't, before they go back to squabbling over what Christianity is.

Actually, up until the Protestant reformation, the overwhelming majority of Christendom was united on many many things.  Many reforms were necessary, but in the course of reforming things many things were disputed and revised which were considered settled for many many centuries.

Where the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches agree, and when you add those insights from Protestants which do not contradict, there is quite a bit of tradition, history, and theology that every Christian ought to rejoice in and agree to.

That is a very nice sentiment, but I would like to take it one step further. In matters as gravely important as life, death, and eternal salvation, wouldn't it have been wise and appropriate for god to create a tradition that embraced all of humanity, over all generations. I know I push god more than the average Joe, but what is the point of having limitless power if you don't know how to use it?

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