Is Jesus just an angel, or is He God?

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[in_con_sistent]

Hello Ed. Perhaps it would be most beneficial for you to provide your definition of "cosmological". What does/doesn't it mean?

Sure, In_con. According to www.dictionary.com , "cosmological" means:

adjective
1.  pertaining to the branch of astronomy dealing with the origin and history and structure and dynamics of the universe...

Thanks Ed.

Using the definition above, when one implies that God and Christ are equal in cosmological glory, does it mean they are equal in origin, history, structure and dynamics? Do I understand correctly? Is this the way you also feel?

Just wanting to establish this for a touchstone for all viewing this discussion before proceeding.

[Edmonson]

Thanks Ed.

Using the definition above, when one implies that God and Christ are equal in cosmological glory, does it mean they are equal in origin, history, structure and dynamics? Do I understand correctly? Is this the way you also feel?

Just wanting to establish this for a touchstone for all viewing this discussion before proceeding.

Well, what *I* was saying, In_con, was that they share 'creation of the universe' glory. Although the scriptures point out that the Father used the Son to create the universe rather than create the universe directly Himself.   

[in_con_sistent]

Well, what *I* was saying, In_con, was that they share 'creation of the universe' glory. Although the scriptures point out that the Father used the Son to create the universe rather than create the universe directly Himself.

Thanks Ed.

Jesus was what you stated earlier, an agent.

An illustration: Think of buying insurance. Most do not deal directly but through an agent. Even though the agent provides you with coverage, it's origin is with the actual insurance company, not the agent.

or...

In some respects, we might liken this cooperation between Father and Son to that of an architect working with a builder, or contractor, who specializes in bringing the architect’s ingenious designs to reality.

When I visualize the above I think to myself of the signs I see when a new project is being built. Customarily, the architect's name is listed at the top of the sign in big, bold letters. Then, next listed is the builder. So, even though the builder is listed, that company is not the creator, but the 'agent' used to bring it to accomplishment. They may share a PORTION of the 'glory', but not any where near the credit the architect receives.

BTW, I will try to get this back to the intended topic of thread. I feel I may have strayed a little. I apologize.

[gracebyfaith]

I'm obviously new to this conversation.  Seems that the discussion is a bit off topic but it still interesting.  My question is if people responding aren't Christian or JW why are we arguing whether Jesus is God with non-Christians?  That almost seems a futile use of time and energy...  It would be more interesting if a JW would answer the original question.

I say this because maybe I'm too naive to think a Christian is able to persuade a non-Christian (on a debate forum) that Jesus is God, no matter how many Scriptures are being used. 

Are there any JWs in this discussion?  I don't know the beliefs of JWs, but I'm assuming they use the Scriptures to establish some of their doctrines.  That is where I think the original question was intended to lead us, and I would be most interested in participating in that discussionn with someone who at least believes the Scriptures are true.

[Celsus]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

According to the OT YHWH himself seems to be but an angel (see especially the story about the Angel of Death killing the first borns).

[in_con_sistent]

I'm obviously new to this conversation.  Seems that the discussion is a bit off topic but it still interesting.  My question is if people responding aren't Christian or JW why are we arguing whether Jesus is God with non-Christians?  That almost seems a futile use of time and energy...  It would be more interesting if a JW would answer the original question.

I say this because maybe I'm too naive to think a Christian is able to persuade a non-Christian (on a debate forum) that Jesus is God, no matter how many Scriptures are being used. 

Are there any JWs in this discussion?  I don't know the beliefs of JWs, but I'm assuming they use the Scriptures to establish some of their doctrines.  That is where I think the original question was intended to lead us, and I would be most interested in participating in that discussionn with someone who at least believes the Scriptures are true.

I would like to comment initially on the topic question. It was asked: Is Jesus just an angel, or is He God?

I am not too fond of the phrase "just an angel". It kinda sounds disparaging towards angels. The poster may not have meant it, however, that is just the way it sounds. I mean angels are nothing to raise the nose at.

The Greek word for angel, angellos, means messenger. It would seem that angels do more than just deliver messages though.

The Bible also seemingly speaks of those of different ranks/types.

(Isaiah 6:2) . . .Seraphs were standing above him. Each one had six wings. With two he kept his face covered, and with two he kept his feet covered, and with two he would fly about.

(Genesis 3:24) . . .And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.

(Jude 9) 9 But when Mi′cha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”

Angels also are very powerful.

(2 Kings 19:35) 35 And it came about on that night that the angel of Jehovah proceeded to go out and strike down a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the camp of the As·syr′i·ans. When people rose up early in the morning, why, there all of them were dead carcasses.

Very useful.

(Matthew 4:11) . . .Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

We should actually give angels their due credit.


Anyways....

(1 Thessalonians 4:16) because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

[in_con_sistent]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

According to the OT YHWH himself seems to be but an angel (see especially the story about the Angel of Death killing the first borns).

(Psalm 78:44-49) . . .And how he began changing to blood their Nile canals, So that they could not drink from their own streams. 45 He proceeded to send upon them gadflies, that these might eat them up; And frogs, that these might bring them to ruin. 46 And he began to give to the cockroaches their yield, And their toil to the locusts. 47 He went killing their vine even by the hail And their sycamore trees by hailstones. 48 And he proceeded to hand over their beasts of burden even to the hail And their livestock to the flaming fever. 49 He went sending upon them his burning anger, Fury and denunciation and distress, Deputations of angels bringing calamity.

Even though God is credited with the plagues, it seems the angels were the ones that were assigned to bring the calamities, including death of firstborn.

[Samuelbb7]

Hello Samuel.

Forgive me if I overlooked it, but it seems that there was no answer provided to the question: Was Jesus fully God and man at the same time?

You stated that "authority refers to what JESUS will do in the day of judgement when every one stands before him."

Why would God give Jesus all authority so far in advance of the judgment? (It's been 1976 years now).

I also agree that there is more than one type of glory.

Could you also deliver the Revelation scripture you referred to?

JESUS was while on Earth fully GOD and fully man.  He hid GOD and to all appearences and life he was a man. Yet as GOD he forgave sin.  Why give him authority before the judgement.  In my church we teach that the judgement has started it. That is the investigation into are we true followers of JESUS or not. When JESUS comes back the decision on who is saved and who is not will already be done. Since we agee with the JW that the dead are asleep in their grave. 

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