Is Jesus just an angel, or is He God?

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[Acumen]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

[sacrificialgoddess]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

Is that a JW doctrine?  I have never heard this before. 

[Acumen]

Yep.  I remember inviting two Jehovah's Witnesses into my living room with bible in hand discussing this very same issue.

[sacrificialgoddess]

Then I really hope someone comes by who can answer! 

[Edmonson]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

I'm not a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, I would like to try and answer the question.

Jehovah's Witness do believe that Jesus is an angel, but not just any angel, but Michael the archangel. Also, they believe that he is the first and only direct creation by God...and from that point on, everything else was created in the universe by means of Michael the archangel as God's "agent" of creation. But JWs do not believe that Michael the archangel is God, as they do not believe in the Trinity. However, they do believe that Michael the archangel is a "god" in the sense of being a mighty and powerful spirit creature.

[Acumen]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

I'm not a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, I would like to try and answer the question.

Jehovah's Witness do believe that Jesus is an angel, but not just any angel, but Michael the archangel. Also, they believe that he is the first and only direct creation by God...and from that point on, everything else was created in the universe by means of Michael the archangel as God's "agent" of creation. But JWs do not believe that Michael the archangel is God, as they do not believe in the Trinity. However, they do believe that Michael the archangel is a "god" in the sense of being a mighty and powerful spirit creature.

How does the Jehovah's Witness answer the charge that the OT scriptures claim that YWVH does not share His glory with another.  If God created Michael, and then created the world through him, doesn't Michael share in the glory of God's Creation?

[in_con_sistent]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

I'm not a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, I would like to try and answer the question.

Jehovah's Witness do believe that Jesus is an angel, but not just any angel, but Michael the archangel. Also, they believe that he is the first and only direct creation by God...and from that point on, everything else was created in the universe by means of Michael the archangel as God's "agent" of creation. But JWs do not believe that Michael the archangel is God, as they do not believe in the Trinity. However, they do believe that Michael the archangel is a "god" in the sense of being a mighty and powerful spirit creature.

How does the Jehovah's Witness answer the charge that the OT scriptures claim that YWVH does not share His glory with another.  If God created Michael, and then created the world through him, doesn't Michael share in the glory of God's Creation?

Perhaps you can post the scripture to go along with your thought? Takes guessing out of the equation. Thanks in advance.

[Acumen]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

I'm not a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, I would like to try and answer the question.

Jehovah's Witness do believe that Jesus is an angel, but not just any angel, but Michael the archangel. Also, they believe that he is the first and only direct creation by God...and from that point on, everything else was created in the universe by means of Michael the archangel as God's "agent" of creation. But JWs do not believe that Michael the archangel is God, as they do not believe in the Trinity. However, they do believe that Michael the archangel is a "god" in the sense of being a mighty and powerful spirit creature.

How does the Jehovah's Witness answer the charge that the OT scriptures claim that YWVH does not share His glory with another.  If God created Michael, and then created the world through him, doesn't Michael share in the glory of God's Creation?

Perhaps you can post the scripture to go along with your thought? Takes guessing out of the equation. Thanks in advance.

Isa 42:8

8 "I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols.
NIV


The scriptures say that God will not give his glory to another.  For most Christians, this would not bother us because we believe that Jesus is the self-same God of the OT.  However, JWs believe that Jesus is not God, but an angel.  Therefore, there is somewhat of a difficulty here when God says He will not share his glory with another.

[Samuelbb7]

I cannot answer for the Witnesses.  But I can confirm that they look on JESUS as the Archangel Michael and they he has become a kind of sub god.  They are very anti trinitarian.

[Acumen]

I cannot answer for the Witnesses.  But I can confirm that they look on JESUS as the Archangel Michael and they he has become a kind of sub god.  They are very anti trinitarian.

Right, I'm not a trinitarian either, but I believe that Jesus is God, not an angel.

[in_con_sistent]

In order to prompt debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like a representative of the religion to answer the entitled question.

I'm not a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, I would like to try and answer the question.

Jehovah's Witness do believe that Jesus is an angel, but not just any angel, but Michael the archangel. Also, they believe that he is the first and only direct creation by God...and from that point on, everything else was created in the universe by means of Michael the archangel as God's "agent" of creation. But JWs do not believe that Michael the archangel is God, as they do not believe in the Trinity. However, they do believe that Michael the archangel is a "god" in the sense of being a mighty and powerful spirit creature.

How does the Jehovah's Witness answer the charge that the OT scriptures claim that YWVH does not share His glory with another.  If God created Michael, and then created the world through him, doesn't Michael share in the glory of God's Creation?

Perhaps you can post the scripture to go along with your thought? Takes guessing out of the equation. Thanks in advance.

Isa 42:8

8 "I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols.
NIV


The scriptures say that God will not give his glory to another.  For most Christians, this would not bother us because we believe that Jesus is the self-same God of the OT.  However, JWs believe that Jesus is not God, but an angel.  Therefore, there is somewhat of a difficulty here when God says He will not share his glory with another.

Hello Acumen.

I, too, agree with Isaiah 42:8. God, indeed, does 'not give his glory to another'.

Yet, you stated: JWs believe that Jesus is not God, but an angel.  Therefore, there is somewhat of a difficulty here when God says He will not share his glory with another.

Some food for thought:

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

In light of the above scripture, did God give Jesus the SAME glory that God Himself posesses?

(John 1:14) . . .So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth. . .

Is Jesus' glory the same as God's glory, which would not be shared with anyone else?

(2 Thess. 2:14) He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus shares the glory?

What is your take on the above?

[Edmonson]

Hello Acumen.

I, too, agree with Isaiah 42:8. God, indeed, does 'not give his glory to another'.

Yet, you stated: JWs believe that Jesus is not God, but an angel.  Therefore, there is somewhat of a difficulty here when God says He will not share his glory with another.

Some food for thought:

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

In light of the above scripture, did God give Jesus the SAME glory that God Himself posesses?

(John 1:14) . . .So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth. . .

Is Jesus' glory the same as God's glory, which would not be shared with anyone else?

(2 Thess. 2:14) He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus shares the glory?

What is your take on the above?

Whew! Now that I'm through deleting the massive pile up of quotes within a quote with a quote within a quote, etc.(which nobody ever reads and also wastes bandwith), if I may be allowed, I would like to respond to in_con_sistent's quote. And unfortunately, in_con_sistent, it sounds as if you are misappling scripture to support your point of view. And it also looks like you are splitting hairs with the idea that the glory that the pre-incarnate Jesus had alongside the Father before the world was is different from Jesus' glory that is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:14, which can also be shared by Christians. The glory that the pre-incarnate Jesus had alongside the Father before the world is obviously referring to cosmological glory, which is in stark contrast to heavenly administrative glory that is suppose to be shared with Christ's earthly brothers.(See Hebrews 3:1, Luke 22:28-30, and Revelation 20:6.)

[Edmonson]

And unfortunately, in_con_sistent, it sounds as if you are misappling scripture to support your point of view. And it also looks like you are splitting hairs with the idea that the glory that the pre-incarnate Jesus had alongside the Father before the world was is different from Jesus' glory that is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:14, which can also be shared by Christians. The glory that the pre-incarnate Jesus had alongside the Father before the world is obviously referring to cosmological glory, which is in stark contrast to heavenly administrative glory that is suppose to be shared with Christ's earthly brothers.(See Hebrews 3:1, Luke 22:28-30, and Revelation 20:6.)

And just to clarify the above, to compare John 17:5 to 2 Thessalonians 2:14 is like comparing apples to oranges.

[Samuelbb7]

Well I guess we can start discussing if the Trinity concept is true.

To me the Bible is very plain. The New Testament teaches that JESUS is GOD. John 1.

It also teaches that JESUS deserves praise along side GOD.

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 

[Acumen]

Matt 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


If all authority in both heaven and earth belongs to Jesus, then isn't he God?

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