My friend I have no problem with vegetarianism. You were the one who brought the term food police into it. My issue is when a church attaches what one eats to their state of righteousness. It was Jesus who said it is not what goes into the body that makes a person unclean.
I did bring up "food police" because you seemed to be saying that Adventist come to check out my pantry. Look, the fact that Adventist ask people to bring a vegetarian dish has everything to do with being sensitive to what other people desire, that's all.
In no wise did Jesus say man could eat pigs or hamsters in Mark 7.
I was merely making the point that if there were no food police in your denomination a chicken casserole would be welcome in your church.
No, a chicken casserole wouldn't be welcomed in the same way as if I was throwing a party at my home and asked the guests to bring a veggie dish because most people attending would be veggies.
It's regarding being sensitive to the needs of others.
Adventist people continually say that there is no problem with Adventists eating meat. Well then if that is true, there would be no problem with a person eating a chicken casserole at an Adventist pot luck.
I have been an Adventist. It isn't cool to eat meat in front of other Adventists. There is a reason for that.
What? I've eaten meat in front of other "Adventists" on certain occasions....no one said a thing to me.
I actually would prefer a vegetarian diet if my household would stand for it! This conversation is not about my opinion on vegetarianism on the whole, it is about my opinion on diet being attached to one's state or risk of salvation as well as my opinion on people loosing balance with their diet on the road to salvation. And I have seen this by far to frequent in the SDA population.
And yet it is obvious your "fears" are unfounded.
Let me tell you something. And before the usual response of saying, "Your family does not eat properly and does not know how to eat a proper vegetarian diet" I will tell you about my family. My Dad is an RN with his certification as an anesthetist as well as a ND certificate. My Mom is an LPN and my one all of my brothers are either nurses or massage practitioners. They eat a whole grain, mostly raw vegetarian diet with what is considered adequate plant proteins on the two meal a day program your prophetess perscribes. It is considered sound even by the secular vegan. That being said, when my father had his massive heart attack and a quadruple bypass his albumin levels were so critically low the cardiologist threw a fit over their diet. Albumin level is a marker of adequate nutrition and a predictor of healing of surgical wounds. He wasn't happy. Despite this excessive diet my dads lipid profile was a disaster.
I have nephews and nieces that growth percentiles are at the failure to thrive level, their hgb/hct levels low and the best the family can offer is that they are being measured by the standards of meat eaters and they are "normal" for vegans. Yet there is no established data but it is clear that vegan children are not meeting the acceptable norms in terms of adequate nutrition and growth that the rest of children have. They are held to the advice of your prophetess to not allow kids to eat between meals while all the contemporary nutritional knowledge say that healthy snacks are a part of a healthy diet and essential to the growing child.
Sorry to hear about you family but blaming you dad's heart attack on anything other than Satan himself is unwise in my opinion. You are naming the exception and not the rule. I attended four funerals last year and everyone was over 80 years old, with one guy living to 94. Statics consistently show that Adventist live longer on average than most....."on average."
I have grave concerns for people that are put on the "progressive change" tract of the SDA church. It is my opinion that they become addicted to the next step on the road to dietary salvation. I always wonder on my next visit to my family, "what is the next thing they are going to give up or add to their diet to make them better fit for eternal life?" And there is always something whether it be giving up or adding to. The nutritional supplements, now that is worthy of a thread it inself the question being: "how much money and how many Adventists are taking nutritional supplements that are not back by research"? But I will tell you that these supplements all have some things in common: A distrust and disparaging attitude to mainstream thinking, a claim of how dangerous and unhealthy our food has become, and a promise that their product will compensate for the toxins and nutritional defficiencies found in today's food. Adventist feed on this sort of advertisment because it supports their world view that everything is getting progresssively worse in this world as a sign of the end times.
You mean it isn't? Man, you sure do like to "project" alot. Your dad had a heart attack and a bypass and you bemoan him wanting him to live longer and better and more healthy?
So the bottom line is I AM NOT hostile to vegetarianism. But I would say that yes I am HOSTILE towards the excessive thinking that brings people to make such extreme changes in their diets that they are nutritionally defficient and they can not eat with the rest of the world.
And what is that to you? Seriously? How does what one person chooses to do with their diet effect you in one small way? It's "projection" and "presumption" in my mind.
Oh that is another element of this excessive diet. It SEPERATES the HOLY from the un holy. The excessive vegan also feeds on their righteousness when they go into a restaurant and can not find anything to eat. To watch them carry on could be funny if they were not people you love. If I had a dime for everytime they say, "Why do they go and ruin it by adding such and such to it, I CAN'T EAT THAT!" And try to even make a basic vegetarian meal for them in your own home. Forget about it, there will be something not quite right about it unless you just get the raw vegetables out of the fridge and say, "here fix them any way you like" and be done with it. Oh I could go on........
I've never seen this myself. You seem to be taking your own individual situation and projecting them on others. When my daughter makes dinner she'll gladly tell me they made "pork and beans" in advance but you can have this as a replacement. Usually I'm good with the salad. When they order pepperoni pizza and antipasto salad they always order a cheese for me. It works out fine.
And this is not just my family. It is MANY ADVENTIST families roped into believing they need to make continual improovements in their diet as part of their development of characters to "get ready for Jesus to come".
Generalization and projection.
So if you choose to attach the word hostile to my thoughts, get my thoughts straight dude. I think vegetarianism is OK. I don't think the excess I see in the dietary instructions of your prophetess OK.
That's YOU! I know others that have welcomed EGW's insight.
Please do not say that I know as well as you do anything. That smacks of the implications that I am not being authentic in what I am voicing. And nothing could be further from the truth.
I just think you are being hyper-general frankly.
I believe it was real alcoholic wine for a variety of reasons that are pointless to go over with an Adventist. I know your point of view. I would hope you would respectfully see that we have different points of view rather than throwing the accusation that I am saying something that I know not to be true.
So no one ever drank freshly squeezed grape juice in the Bible....not even once? It was all fermented? I find that highly unlikely frankly considering that it took at least 12 weeks for wine to ferment to the point where there was a substantial amount of alcohol to make the wine worthy of drink.
Furthermore I believe a glass of wine with a meal is and has been substantiated by science to be a part of a healthy diet for adults. There is no point in having this conversation further. I have had this conversation many times with Adventists. To agree to disagree is the best either of us could hope for.
Hey great! Believe that all you want. There are more and more studies that show that even minimal amounts of alcohol can lead to cancer increased risks.
Daily glass of wine may increase cancer riskEven to say that you think I am being paranoid on a given subject is a description of my character and motives and I don't appreciate it. Stick to the subject material and not me.
You are overly sensitive frankly Val.
Merely saying that most every study would disagree with me is not bringing forward the proof and the studies of both sides. But again it is no point in having that conversation either.
If you can show me any study ever done that a high animal flesh intake diet is better that a balanced one or a vegetarian one I'd listen.
But you would find one.
You were the one brining up gluten, not me. I don't get it twice you bring something up and then whent a counter point is brought up you question the relevance. The relevance comes from my response to your statement connecting what another Christian dietician said about gluten to the writings of EGW. And EGW did not oppose gluten and probably promoted it. Here is your statement:
I was listening to a "non-Adventist" radio station just yesterday that interviewed a Christian dietitian that recommended freeing the diet of dairy and gluten. I wonder if she was "brainwashed" by the Adventists and EGW.
As far as sectarian websites quoting EGW, there is a lot of junk out there on the www so the mere quoting of EGW by other sources doesn't impress me.
Val, I'm not bringing things up to "counter" or question the relevance of any points you make, man oh man, re-read what I write. All I said was "Certain folks are allergic to gluten and gluten products." That's all. The comment you made doesn't change the fact that certain folks are allergic to gluten and gluten products.
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